Healing After Divorce: Turning Pain Into Purpose w/ Liv Lewis Founder & CEO of Livd

In this deeply honest and compassionate episode of The Audacious Black Girl Podcast, I sit down with Liv Lewis, founder of Livd, a community created to support Black and Brown women navigating separation and divorce. Liv shares her personal journey through the unraveling of her marriage and the powerful self-discoveries that emerged on the other side of heartbreak.

Together, we explore how divorce can be both a breaking point and a breaking open—an invitation to examine old patterns, heal abandonment wounds, and reclaim wholeness. Liv reflects on people-pleasing, overfunctioning, and the quiet ways many women lose themselves while trying to be chosen, accepted, or saved.

This conversation is about choosing yourself, telling the truth about pain, and allowing healing to transform loss into purpose. It’s a reminder that endings don’t mean failure. They can be the beginning of a more aligned, liberated life.

Join the Livd Community:⁠ https://www.livd.co/membership⁠

Subscribe to the Livd Newsletter: ⁠https://www.livd.co/newsletter⁠

Need Guidance? Learn about coaching packages here: ⁠https://www.livd.co/coaching⁠

Connect with Livd Stories:

IG: @livdstories

Website: ⁠https://www.livd.co/

Connect with Liv Lewis

IG: @livlewis 

Have a topic or question you want me to explore? Please email me at amanda@audaciousblackgirl.com!

Follow me on Instagram @audaciousblackgirl

Transcript

Amanda: 0:00

Alright, welcome everyone to the Audacious Black Girl Podcast. This is your host, Amanda. Today, today we have a very amazing guest, incredible guest. Her name is Liv Lewis. She's the founder of Lived, a multi-platform community and podcast created to support Black and Brown women navigating the very often isolating journey of marital separation and divorce. After experiencing her own divorce, Liv realized just how overwhelming and lonely the process can be, especially for women of color who often carry these transitions in silence. I think a lot of us suffer in silence when we're navigating big transitions, especially in our relationships, work, all those things. So out of her own personal pain, she built what she wished she had: a trusted, safe space filled with real stories, resources, and hope. True Audacious Black Girl, because that's what we do. We turn our pain into purpose. And through Lived, Liv is changing the narrative. She's creating a platform that offers not only professional guidance, but also soul-nourishing conversations that honor both heartbreak and healing. Liv is here to remind us that even in the messiness of endings, we can choose ourselves, rebuild, and thrive. Welcome to the show. I'm so honored to have you. I'm so ready for this really, really real conversation we're about to have. And I know both of us are in our 40s, and these are just situations I think so many of us are navigating at this time. So I think this is going to be a wonderful conversation and so need it. So let's take us back to that season in your life when you were divorcing. What did the unraveling of your marriage teach you about yourself? What did you learn?

Liv: 1:42

Oh, I learned so many things. And what I really think I learned about myself is that I can I can do hard things. And it's a popular say, it's a popular phrase, and everyone's kind of saying it. But I don't know if people actually believe that they can. And in the breaking, I had to break my own heart. In that breaking, I learned that I can rebuild. And that once something shatters, it doesn't mean an ending. It just means it's gonna be a beautiful mosaic that you're not expecting and that you don't even actually know what the picture is that you're bringing that you're creating. And so for me, I had to recognize that little live or the inner live, and we talk a lot, I talk a lot about inner child work is I had to do that level of work. Once I recognized that things were incongruent within myself and that I was saying certain things, but I wasn't acting in congruency with those things, that there was a breaking that needed to happen within me, and in the realization of the breaking of my own heart and the breaking of a marriage, because I was the one that asked for the divorce, that I could break something, but I could also rebuild. And there's something that happens in women, I believe, because I believe we are woven and built in that when we when we birth children, we're breaking ourselves. And there's a rebuilding that happens. It's the same kind of mindset and the same kind of understanding of self that you go through in uh in an ending and then in a new beginning.

Amanda: 3:34

Oh my gosh, I I love that you talked about and were just really honing in on the fact that when something breaks, it doesn't mean an ending, it's a breaking open. And sometimes I think that needs to happen in order for us to kind of see things differently and with more clarity and understanding. And yes, like when something breaks, like just like when you're giving birth, if you're someone that gives birth or you've had a child, life comes. Something beautiful comes from that. Yeah, but you have to go through the contractions, through the the pain, through the gestation, through the gestation to birth that life, right? It's so powerful, yeah.

Liv: 4:20

And when you think about birthing and when you think about bringing something to life, there are ingredients that need to happen, and you don't realize, you don't recognize, or you don't even know the ingredients are in you until you're like it's almost like I'm here now, and then there's a tool, there's almost like an automatic like reckoning that happens that you're like, okay, let me go into my toolbox of sorts to bring something forward. But I mean, we're saying it now in hindsight is 2020, but it is a painful thing to go through. There's some hard truths that I had to face about my own self. There's a hard truth that I had to come to terms with about how I even got into a situation that I think many, many people who are in a situation like that maybe don't necessarily have the like recognition to poke and to pry to like, oh, how did I get here? Right, you know, and for me, I recognize like well, heavy, you probably shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Let's start there. And when I say that was, well, I didn't even know what marriage was, I didn't know what I was signing up for.

Amanda: 5:37

Right.

Liv: 5:38

Does anyone really well to be honest? I chat how long we got because no, we don't, and I think that's I mean, marriage specifically, right? Oh, you walked down the altar based on what you know about the person, but the promise, the covenant, is for what you don't know, right? And in the what you don't know, how much of that can you endure? And I think people think that they can tolerate things for forever, but the reality is you mm-mm, you can't.

Amanda: 6:16

You get to the breaking point.

Liv: 6:18

There's a breaking that will need to happen, and the hope and the goal is that as you learn about a person, you start to kind of scenario plan a little bit and you start talking about some of these things to see what kind of character is this person really? What level, when no one is watching, who is this person and how are they gonna act if, right? And I I believe that's why they share you dating through seasons so that you can see a person's character in all the seasons, and then you make an informed decision. So, but I didn't know any of that. I just was like, Yeah, this person's gonna rescue me out of calm, whatever it was gonna make me happy. Uh, some how fickle was that? Like, make you happy, really? That's your job, you know. But I didn't know any of that, no experience, and I also didn't allow people to speak into my life to ask me, well, girl, you you know what you're doing from the outside looking in. I could you could make it.

Amanda: 7:26

But did you have people that would ask you that?

Liv: 7:28

I didn't allow people in my life really to ask me that. I almost kept them at bay because I knew what I didn't know until I was 27. You know what's interesting, your brain doesn't develop. And I just learned this like maybe a couple years ago. Your brain doesn't develop until you're 25. So that means I'm a two-year-old adult getting ready to make a forever commitment. Um, yeah.

Amanda: 7:54

There literally needs to be a label, I think, on you know, marriages before 25. Like your brain is not matured yet. Maybe give yourself a little time, consider this because there's so much growth that needs to happen personally. And I'm glad that you're pointing out that there was your own work that you needed to do that you recognized. And right. And I do understand and um appreciate the fact that when we are in relationships, like it is meant to teach us, it is meant for us to grow and to learn. And wherever way that ends up, you know, whether still together or not, you are learning. And sometimes we recognize that we're repeating the same patterns that we witnessed growing up, those learned behaviors, and now they're showing up in your relationship, in your marriage, and now you're navigating all of that at the same time, right? So, did you find you mentioned there were like ingredients for you? Yeah, what did you find perhaps that um you needed to heal from or recognize in this journey when you broke open?

Liv: 9:06

So the the the context that I'll provide for your listeners is I grew up, I was born in America, and um my mom and my dad got divorced, and my mom, in figuring things out, sent me to live with my grandparents in Sierra Leone, West Africa. So, and I was 18 months. Now, the language, I was a baby, but that I didn't have the language, but something happened. That's a trauma. Yes, and so leaving mom and dad to live with grandparents. I while I didn't have the language, there's a level of abandonment issues that I had. Well, fast forward. Well, in Africa, I was American. In America, I was African. So there's a level of otherness that I've always experienced in just my bringing up, where I felt as though I had to earn love. I had to earn worthiness. I had to earn and prove my value. And so my entire behavior, my entire, my entire come-up has always been from a place of proving to people that I deserve to be seen, to be valued, to be worth, to be loved. And again, this is now post-therapy. I know myself now enough and I have the language to articulate it. But if I'm a person who feels abandoned, if I'm a person who's desperate to be seen, desperate for people to know that I'm worthy of something, my entire fabric is based on just proving and not really knowing myself. So I overachiever, I'm an overfunctioner by trait. Like if there's a problem, I'm gonna figure out how to fix it. Because in my mind, if I fix it, then I get the gold star. Then if I fix it, if I get all A's, then maybe mommy will recognize that you're good enough to be around, right? And so that behavior is what I learned about myself, that I really didn't allow anybody to really see me because I didn't even know who I was to be able to see. I didn't even realize that I had masks on as well. And I didn't even realize, like if you were to meet me, you would never say, Oh, she's a people pleaser. But the behaviors and the actions and voices signaled people pleaser. And so fundamentally, what I learned or didn't know that I had was abandonment issues and people pleasing tendencies. And so when I met a guy who happened to be Christian and who from the outside looking in checked all these boxes and didn't care about my past and all that, I'm like, yep, seems like the right person. And I committed to something without even knowing, well, what do I want in something? I was more so, please accept me, please, because I'm this at this broken individual. Please accept broken live into this covenant relationship because you're gonna help her feel better about herself.

Amanda: 12:26

Like you're explaining, like we unknowingly like repeat these patterns. We add right, we unknowingly have these wounds that we don't even recognize need healing, that we don't even recognize we have. Invisible, they're yeah, they're invisible. We're just walking through life, and then we get into a relationship, and then here we are. And this is something that you know I help a lot of my clients navigate who are in relationships married or long-term relationships, and that at this point where they're trying to understand, is this what I want? Because something is missing, something is off. And no one says relationships is supposed to be perfect, right? But you also shouldn't have to be enduring anything. You also shouldn't have to be like surviving anything, you should feel whole. No matter what, you should feel whole and healthy. And if that's not happening, there's a problem. And as you're saying, the work that you've been able to do since having that realization is has been profound for you. Like it shifted something in your eye opening.

Liv: 13:30

Well, one that nothing is wrong with me.

Amanda: 13:35

That's huge. Oh gosh, yeah. Yeah, nothing of us walking around like how many of us are walking around with not trying to cry on this podcast, so sorry, I am a therapist, but go ahead.

Liv: 13:47

Yeah, but like when you hear that, I wasn't a whole person. I was I saw in the mirror a half of a person, and I'm looking for someone to complete me. What's that? Jerry McGuire, you complete me. I was looking, but you you you said it, a whole person comes to a relationship, not a half a person. So I'm looking for someone to tell me I'm worthy, but that's a realization that I should have on my own. And so in making these choices, even if I think about relationships, how I showed up at my job, how I all of these things, I'm just trying for people to say we accept you here, we see you, right?

Amanda: 14:35

Hold on, broken and all.

Liv: 14:37

Yeah, and you're all of it is worthy, all of you is worthy, all of me is worthy. So this this identity, and I I will say I had an identity crisis because if you don't know who you are, then you're trying on these different I I became what the room needed, I became what the people needed, and I was just putting on these masks versus just being me. Yeah, and I was exhausted.

Amanda: 15:03

It is exhausting, it's exhausting when you're not aligned, it's exhausting when you are trying to figure out who you are, and like you said, putting on these masks, putting on these costumes, constantly adjusting, constantly accommodating.

Liv: 15:19

It is exhausting, it's exhausting work, it's exhausting work, and so in the marriage, transparently walking down the aisle, I am crying. Now, people think I'm crying from joy. I'm crying because I'm like, this is a big mistake. Like, I am this is somebody get me out of this dress. So you sensed it then. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, but in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, maybe this is just how it's supposed to be. Oh, almost trying to self-correct this internal feeling. Now I didn't know that that was my gut, I didn't trust material in my gut, I didn't know intuition because I hadn't put it to practice. So I pushed that away and I followed through down the aisle and committed to a person, but I didn't really fully commit to the person because full and whole live wasn't present. I was terrified to say this is a mistake because we had already done all the things to get to here now, and it's like, well, I might as well.

Amanda: 16:28

Yeah.

Liv: 16:28

But I I I knew I knew that it was the wrong decision, but I wasn't brave enough to break my own heart then.

Amanda: 16:36

Yeah. Ooh, you weren't brave enough to break your own heart then.

Liv: 16:40

I wasn't.

Amanda: 16:41

Yeah, I wasn't. That makes me also think about just the narratives that kind of walk with us down the aisle, right? Like as you're saying, all these thoughts were going through your head, all these feelings, but the narratives that we are taught on a social level, familial level, about who we are and what we're supposed to be, what we're supposed to do. And even when it comes to when you're in a relationship, like certain language, you know, my soul, you're my soul partner, my, you know, we're we're we're, you know, spiritually together, like you're it for me. You're my other half. We all are walking down half a person, if that's the language we're using. We're all walking down the aisle going, oh, you're going to complete me. Right. But that's also, once again, the narrative that we're taught. This the societal familial narrative, get someone to complete you. And in reverse, what's that saying is you're not whole enough on your own.

Liv: 17:43

You're not.

Amanda: 17:44

The only way you'll be whole is in the with another person. You're not, we're not taught how to be whole on our own.

Liv: 17:53

And if you think about it, it's just recently that I would think this shift in understanding self with so much information at our fingertips and social media. I think now is the reckoning, but like giving myself a little bit of grace and showing kindness to myself. I didn't know anybody. People weren't talking about podcasts out here. You know what I mean? Like probably conversations were happening in closed doors among like best friends, maybe, but no one was talking about some of these things openly, yeah. In in a way where you say, Okay, you didn't hear that girl. You know what I mean? This was not, you know, I'm 47. So like this is technology, what? Like, we I remember dialing. I I remember too. Yes. Yes. So I have to give myself grace to say we didn't know what we didn't know, and people were not encouraged to share and and talk about it, nor would I say that transparently I would have been the person to receive that level of advice either. Because I'm in my mind, I'm like, well, I know.

Amanda: 19:04

You don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, but that's very real. That's very, very real. You don't know what you don't know.

Liv: 19:10

Don't know what you don't know, and you have to just forgive yourself for that. And once you now recognize and know there's no excuse. And so when I think about, so we were we were married for 14 years. So think about that. I I knew I was making a mistake, but I went with it, and for the most part, I can say that the marriage in itself was a business. We never fought, we never it it just it was like two platonic friends in a marriage, and we did the things, but we weren't intimate in the intimacy of knowing each other because we never did that when we were dating. We did that that wall that you kind of put down when you really get to know. Person never happened. Now, we come from a Christian background, and back in the day, like you know, you don't put yourself in a situation where you fornicate and all of that. So that's a part of it, but we never allowed ourselves to really be vulnerable with one another, to know each other. So the marriage was platonic in a sense of like we're we're buddies, but it never reached that level of intimacy where I could say these are my soul wounds, that I can say this is what I need, and vice versa for him as well. And so two P after a while, you can only but tolerate lack of intimacy for so long. But then there's two I have two kids, and so in the staying of it all, there's another narrative of you stay for the kids. The kids are fine. If you're listening to this, you're staying for the kids. The kids know that y'all need to be separated because the kids, while they don't have the language, kids things are caught, not taught. So the kids see it. Don't say you're staying for the kids. The kids are gonna be fine eventually with therapy. But again, these are all the narratives I was saying to myself. And granted, the logistical things need to happen. So year one, year two, year, I think we waited, I was 30, so three years, had my son, um, then fast follow my daughter, and it was the business of the family, the business of the kids. And it wasn't until I found myself frozen for I couldn't feel, and there was like a tightness in my chest. And I'll go with the doctors, because I really thought something was physically wrong with me. Wow. Um, and finally, some was like, Well, have you gone to a therapist in the therapy process? You do the questionnaire, you do your discovery calls, etc. And one of the therapists said, Well, are you depressed? It's like depressed.

Amanda: 21:54

I'm depressed, I'm fine. Never even crossed your mind.

Liv: 21:57

Never crossed my mind. But that was those were signals of depression.

Amanda: 22:01

Yeah.

Liv: 22:02

Because I was trying to solve for how I'm getting out of this marriage, how how he's gonna live, what we're gonna do with the house, we're gonna do with the kids, all these things, and I was just stuck. Wow, yeah, and stuck for a minute, and that level of stress was just weighing me down, and I was escaping, I was numbing with work. So we talk about you know, I was saying family first, but child, you need me to go to the clients in wherever, bus Boston. Sure, I'm there. We need to have a staffer at the event, sure I'm there. So I was never home because I was escaping this feeling because I knew now outside looking in, we looked like the perfect couple. Things were wonderful, but I was dying inside. And I and I wasn't talking because you know they tell you don't say nothing about your marriage because you know what happens in your marriage. So I didn't even I'm thinking, I guess this is marriage. So I wasn't sharing what's happening, but until and it wasn't until I started kind of talking about what was happening that women were like, Oh, you might need counseling, oh, this, and that's how I actually landed in therapy, is because someone was like, You might need to go talk to someone about this, right? Um, and in now talking more with my sister friends is when I'm like, Yeah, this isn't changing. We tried therapy, one of us was committed to therapy, the other one, not so much. Because when you go to therapy, marriage therapists, the first thing that you know, they, you know, first few sessions are cute, and then she quickly realized, oh, y'all to need to have several separate therapy sessions with me because I got some internal inner wounds to figure out before we can even work on this marriage.

unknown: 23:50

Right.

Liv: 23:50

And I was like, We do? Because I didn't know any. So all of my inner stuff I realized attachment style issues, abandonment issues, all the things that come with my upbringing. And so in that, I started to excel a little bit and evolve and change and grow. And he didn't want to really do that inner work. And um after a while, unequally yoked, and it's just like, yeah, I can't drag you along with I can't solve for you, you know, that's my mask on first. I have to put my mask on first. And it was a really, really hard decision because you're told, well, that's your partner, you know. Um, and once I started to kind of really reconcile some of the things that I had to deal with from a for my inner child and all of that, then it was like, okay, what are you gonna do with this information? And I still didn't have the courage to say I wanna exit. I'm still thinking, okay, he's eventually going to come to terms that he needs to do the work too, etc. And um, and I was just in limbo for a very long time. Yeah, wow. For a very long time, and then finally, um, and I I think some of the things too that my therapist was trying to figure out um was why is it that you're so audacious in your work and in in all that you do, but are not audacious in your personal life. Why is it so hard for you to make this decision? What's why? And that's when we that's when we learn that, well, that's because you be people pleasing girl. There we go.

Amanda: 25:37

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Liv: 25:39

Yeah.

Amanda: 25:40

I think so many of us are so many people are going through that. I really do think our listeners who are navigating something similar will relate to that story because a lot of us do suffer in silence, a lot of us do just kind of know what the right decision is, but like we're in limbo because there's so life is life, right? There's so many things to consider, but you get stuck in that. You get so stuck in it, and in that process, you're suffering, suffering so bad. And then at some point, it gets to that breaking point where you have no other option but to choose the mountain, choose to climb it.

Liv: 26:22

And my realization this is a very funny story. So I walk, I worked in the city in New York City, and I'd um I was listening to a podcast. I was like taking on information, anything that's gonna like feed my soul. And so I'm listening to a podcast, and the podcast was I think it was Glenn and Doyle talking about her first book, Love Warriors or something like that. And I'm listening to it on the train and I'm commuting, I'm walking, I'm on 7th Avenue, and I went to FIT. So I walk past 27th and 7th, that's the campus, FI FIT. And she said to me, she said on the podcast, and I knew deep down that I needed to end this marriage. And she and she says, and you know too. If you're listening, you know. And girl, in the middle of 7th Avenue and 27th, I start to ugly cry.

Amanda: 27:10

Oh, yeah.

Liv: 27:10

Like, not the like, let me stifle and run to a corner. No, I'm bawling. Yeah, I'm like, what's wrong? Like, what like typical New York show? And so I make it to the office crying. I remember calling my best friend, and I'm hyperventilating, and she's like, oh my god, what's wrong? And I was like, I'm I'm I have to divorce him. And granted, maybe this is like I got to the I I got to the office. I was usually the first one there. Maybe I got to the office at 8 15. I had like a nine o'clock meeting, so I had like 45 minutes to like to get yourself together, on it out, because it was very much that, and get myself together. Did I kill the meeting? I absolutely did. But there was I that was my breakdown. Yes, that was my breakdown, and it was public. I'm sure people were like, whatever. But that was kind of like the switch. Now there's the realization of it, then there's the actioning, which then takes time. So, like I'm keeping it such a buck that like this is not an automatic, like, yep, I'm divorcing you, keep it pushing. Like, you constantly have to like keep the ball moving where there's a realization, then you gotta get your ducks in a row. And depending on the state, you gotta know the law, you know what I mean? And so as I kind of inch my way through, I realized in this situation, in this scenario, I didn't have a place to ask questions. Like, how do I go about? I mean, I call lawyers, what do I ask the lawyers? And they give you when you call the lawyers, they they give it's the same kind of questions. And at this time, I believe I was a sole income bearer in the in the household, and he told me, well, it's cheaper to keep them. And I ended everything. Wow, I ended the search, the momentum stopped because I couldn't. What do you mean it's cheaper to keep it? Like you hear that, but it's just a numbers game. And in doing the numbers, that's literally just numbers.

Amanda: 29:19

Wow.

Liv: 29:20

I said, okay, let's close this notebook, and I kept it pushing.

unknown: 29:24

Oh my gosh.

Liv: 29:25

Maybe another three or four years.

Amanda: 29:27

Wow.

Liv: 29:28

Frozen. Um, so it was like a cycle of mini decision and and no, and there's no guide. There's no, and every divorce is nuanced, but there's certain things that you have to know in the process before you make decisions. Um, and that's what I recognized was missing, and why I had the audacity to create it, child, because I was like, I can't be the only one. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, that is that is that is my story of of recognition.

Amanda: 30:06

Yeah.

Liv: 30:07

Um, and I and I also think thank goodness for the um the individuals who are in my life that kind of had the patience with me to see the start stop. Um and I remember in speaking to my friends, and in the so I live in New Jersey, the law New Jersey is the individual who's income rare, is the individual who's mainly responsible for the logistical things. And so in mediation, and I chose mediation on on intentionally because I didn't want to, we weren't fighting, it wasn't a contentious thing. Yeah, I just knew I needed out, and recognized that this wasn't going to work either, so it was a mutual decision. But when you when and so we when I the lawyer didn't the lawyer avenue didn't work out, so I was like, Well, my therapist, have you thought about mediation? What's mediation? Didn't even know that, right? Wow. So that's another avenue if you choose to go where if it's not contentious, you can actually divorce without needing the courts, etc. And so I went and made that choice. But it's in the speaking with other black women that I recognize a few of them had really bad divorces. So I knew I didn't want that, so much so that like bankruptcy, like it was just been bad situations. And in that mediation process is when I learned I had to be responsible for spousal support.

Amanda: 31:35

Wow.

Liv: 31:36

Because you were the sole income bearer at the time. Yeah, he had just lost and so he had just lost the job. So I knew like, oh, this is going to be hard. And again, I'm still trying to solve for in the kids me. Because again, this is the father of my kids. It's not like we I can't stand him. No, but I still didn't realize that, like, even in the ending, I'm still gonna be responsible for this person.

Amanda: 32:01

What? What did that do to you?

Liv: 32:04

I was pissed.

Amanda: 32:04

How did you keep going?

Liv: 32:06

I was bitter and pissed. I was not involved. You're hearing involved with like you saw how quick I went back to, I was pissed, right? Because I mean, and all of my friends, I was livid, all of my friends knew it, and I was heartbroken because I thought freedom was gonna be free. Freedom ain't free. Freedom ain't free.

Amanda: 32:27

Freedom is not free. That's real. Freedom ain't free.

Liv: 32:31

But it's worth it though. It is in fact worth that cost. It's worth it, it is worth the cost. Now I'm only speaking from my personal experience, but um, and in the realization of spouse, I was disappointed, I was heartbroken because I, in my imagination, my therapist talks about my expectations. I expected, manage your expectations, girl, personify it, girl, you're doing too much. No, I expected that okay, we're gonna just gonna I'll take on the dead, I'll take on all the things, you know, but that's not the case in the law. And in my rants and raves, all my friends were like, How many times are you gonna hear this? One of my friends said to me, girl, pay, pay him, you always make more. If she hadn't shared that with me, I probably still would be in court.

Amanda: 33:20

Wow.

Liv: 33:21

Being a petty girl, pay him, you always make more.

Amanda: 33:26

Wow.

Liv: 33:28

And when I tell you everything got warm, it's like that epidural feeling. For those of you who love the epidural, you know what I'm talking about. It's like that one right leg gets warm, and then it's like, oh, thank you, Jesus. And so, if not for that advice, I would have still just been on a rampage because there was no way I was gonna pay spouse support. And so it just clicked. Yeah, that I had to pay the cost for it, but I would owe, I would, I would make it, it'll it'll work itself out.

Amanda: 34:01

It'll work itself out, work itself out. Oh my gosh.

Liv: 34:04

And so originally, Live was going to be a 501c3 grant organization where any woman who needed spouse support will come to Lived and borrow money from me to pay spouse support, right? Because I was at petty. And that's how it really started. I was like, I'm gonna create a fund for women who never go through this, you know what I mean? And so after therapy and healing, you know, Liv has become now a spouse, uh a space where you can get community resources, etc. But it really did, I really was disappointed in the understanding of the process. And when you think about what's happening in America and black women and how they continue to rise, they're entrepreneurs, they're climbing corporate ladders. It makes sense that there's a majority, a lot of women now that are in a situation where they're paying for spouse support because they brokered a deal where okay, I'll go get it and you stay home, right? Role reversal. I think a lot of women still think though that, like, yeah, the sp the woman is gonna get these things. No, if anything, the law is very, yeah, the law is actually quite fair. And I mean, it looks like there are no gender roles now in this process, and that is a misconception that a lot of people need to think about. Yeah, there is no my money, your money, no matter what it's under. If it was a part of the marriage, well, it's his. People ain't talking about this. Oh no, we gotta, we gotta change it. And then yeah, and in the in so this so lived really started. I I I started just having a podcast where I was interviewing other women who went through and just hearing their stories, and it's a lot of common denominators about missing the signs or shifting the narrative or seeing something that you dismiss, thinking it's gonna change later. So those are common denominators, but the the response has been so overwhelming that I thought to myself, oh, I'm just gonna create a podcast. And I was like, No, you need to create a community, you need to create a safe space for women to unravel, rebuild, and fly out again. And so that's the birthing of Lived, and that's essentially what I've um set out to do. That's my purpose mission. And um, it's really, really bittersweet because you hear so many heartbreaking stories, but it's also sweet because I've seen women just thrive after they realize they can they can rebuild and and enjoying their living their best lives, you know. Um and it's beautiful to watch because a lot of women also don't recognize the level of accountability that they need to take on themselves.

Amanda: 37:06

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and and I mean I I don't think we can grow if we don't take accountability, if we don't take ownership, if we don't take responsibility for um, you know, just what is going on and that compassion of I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know what I didn't know, but I know better now. And that's what matters, you know. All we ever have, once again, I always bring up like my therapy experiences, and I tell my clients like who are struggling, I'm like, you're an adult. All you ever had before this was childhood. That's it. You weren't an adult, like for the past whatever amount of years, and like learning how to navigate relationships. You, the person you are today, is gonna be different tomorrow, yeah, and the next day, and the next day. And you were different yesterday and a day before. So I think we have to meet ourselves where we are. And as you're saying, that grace, that accountability, all those elements are so critical. And I really appreciate how even in you telling your story, I can see how you created your community to really prioritize these difficult moments that you went through to make it easier or more accessible for those navigating that same space, because what women need in these situations is community. They need support, they need clarity, they need not to think so hard. They need you know what I mean? Because like there's like as we've just been discussing, there's so much emotion, there's so many things you got to think about, there's so many disappointments. The more you research, right? As you're saying, the more you research, the more you're just like, damn, okay, can I do this? Should I do this? Let me close the book, let me come back to this. Do I come back to it? What about the kids? But your your business, your program, your platform, it's all about bringing women together to say it's okay, you're gonna make it through. Yeah, you're gonna make it through, and that's so important.

Liv: 39:05

Yeah, and it's not and it's not pretty, but it is necessary. And I I honestly think that and I'm still trying to figure out why we aren't why we're trained to suffer in silence and why it's so difficult to be vocal and ask for help and advocate for ourselves. I don't I I think now more and more we're starting to see that, but I do still think there's so many women who are suffering in silence and they know that they need to leave or they know the decision they need to make, but are afraid.

Amanda: 39:45

Yeah. Yeah. It it 'cause it is scary, rightfully so. Oh it is absolutely scary.

Liv: 39:51

Yes.

Amanda: 39:52

You know, and like I see, you know, just content videos, people divorcing in their sixties, like they they're just like I I can't do it no more. And just to think that like they how long were they suffering? Right? Yeah. And especially that generation, this in being in your 60s or even 70s, you're I've seen like, I'm just like, wow, this is called great divorces. Yeah, it's called great divorces. Great divorces. Yeah. I'm just like, oh my goodness, like how long were you suffering? How long were you sitting in that? And did you have anyone to talk to? Did you know there were resources out there for you? Were you able to research? There's so many factors, of course, but all these questions like come to mind because those are the things I think keep you stuck and keep you in these really unhealthy situations where in intuitively you know I need to go, but you don't want to face it.

Liv: 40:49

Don't want to face it.

Amanda: 40:50

And it's it's so hard I think to face those truths. Yeah. But when you do, as difficult as it is, you learn much. Yeah. But no, like you at the you are at the cusp of your ancestral line, right? Like you are right there. And I think that you know we're in our 40s, you know, we both have children and the work that we do on ourselves the to to break these generational curses, narratives, stories would only better their lives and our ancestral line going forward. It really becomes this incredible important work to care for yourself, to love yourself and to center yourself. It's more than you, it's more than me, it's more, it's we are healing the ancestral line. Whatever the decisions we're navigating right now, whatever it is we're going through, you're going through, how can you center yourself? How can you center your care and what you need so that you are able to blossom and align and like really feel like your most authentic self because as we were talking about when you were going through this experience there was that piece of you that just didn't feel like yourself and because you weren't listening to yourself, right? But now that you've learned now that you're healing here you are and you created a beautiful platform to help other women get there to get into that process. So I thank you for the work that you're doing and the service you're providing. Thank you beautiful.

Liv: 42:24

Even as you're saying some of these things, you know what I think about I think of the reframing of legacy building a lot of people in the hearing they're thinking about you know what am I leaving my kids and money but no it's the healthy upbringing it's the emotional wellness it is in fact the it's all those little things that you're developing in yourself but you're showing your kids another way a different way and that is actually more important because once you teach them that then they're teaching their kids and their kids their kids and so yeah I'm doing legacy work um for this bringing up emotionally healthy humans.

Amanda: 43:14

Yes I love that I love that I really love that and oh I absolutely love that like I'm thinking about legacy as well like I did my vision board uh it's up there somewhere um and I put um like a message under the pictures and images about legacy and now that you're saying that it's making me think differently about legacy because I think I was more so focused on a lot of it was generational wealth building financial knowledge all those things I'm like oh legacy is so much more than that it's the emotional health it's the spiritual health it's abundance the spiritual abundance the emotional abundance right um oh that's such a beautiful message thank you for that yeah thank you it's needed it's needed especially within our community especially with the world as nuts as it is I think you know if anything like small pockets of community is where safety is now in this um these day and age and so you know why not build it for black women what's so funny is I continue to talk about the platform I was talking to this uh producer and she and she was not black it's like oh my god you know have you thought about making it for everyone because everyone needs this and I was like oh bless I was like oh yeah I'm considerate girl in my mind I was like why can't we just have something ourselves like exactly oh my gosh I love that you said that and that's a whole nother conversation I know I um you know my podcast platform is called Audacious Black Girls I remember I am anything I post it's I sent her black women like it's in the name and someone commented this is like last year on something I posted and this person appeared to be white facing um and she posted oh well I guess I gotta create a platform or something for white girls and I said you know what you can go ahead and do that I think you should I said if that's the community you want to support you feel free like hello it's just crazy people just like it that's another conversation anywho yes what would you tell the black woman the woman of color who is struggling right now in a similar situation our our listener who's in the situation and feeling stuck what would you tell her to do to help her just activate her resilience and to move into her purpose I would tell her so much I want one you gotta be honest with yourself you gotta be honest with yourself that it is not easy it is hard but you have what you have it in you to rebuild you are strong enough to withstand to go through this I would also say if you have children that they're watching how you navigate this and navigating it with grace and resilience is is what people think but you can also navigate it messy and there's there's a substance in your kids seeing that because I think this society paints pictures of things like looking perfect where reality in life is that is not perfect.

Liv: 46:50

And so I think if you're stuck and you're really trying to figure it out you have to be honest with yourself you have to talk to people and that's again that honesty part like you're not saying some things to your friends to your community to your safe space and you're not necessarily getting that level of advice that you need to make one small right next step because I don't want to fool you into thinking this is easy and it's done and one and done again divorce is nuanced and depending on your situation but you do have to have the courage to take just one step forward in unpacking what it is that you need to to understand to move forward. Beautiful thank you for that um in that honesty piece like a lot of us we lie to be lying to ourselves we be lying girl we be lying to ourselves we look right in the mirror and just lie yeah you know I'm happy you know yeah I can do no why suffer why why get honest that's hard though hella hard well it it is very very hard um it is very very hard but I'm also uh I'm a a believing Christian and there was also a knowing that I need to I had it to get right with God as well and a knowing of myself and who God said I am um in this right because I also what held me back was thinking God was going to be mad at me and not love me because I made this promise in front of him and now I'm remaking so you know so it was like I I wrestled with that for a while and then I recognized and it was a revelation that he no matter what his love is never going to go away. And I actually did a recent podcast where it talks about people thinking God hates divorce and that verse in the Bible is misconstrued and if you need to understand more you listen to my podcast a matter or point you in the right direction but the reason God hates divorce is because of what it does to people but he doesn't hate people. So it doesn't hate you he just knows what divorce does and that he doesn't like that's powerful but it doesn't mean he hates you yeah that's so powerful um and he is there with you and will go through it with you so you also have to remember remember that oh that's so beautiful that's such a beautiful way to just kind of wrap up I think the episode in God's love literally God's love it's omnipresent is what always comes up for me God's love and God is with you through those deepest struggles but we don't listen you know I think that's when our intuition is speaking to us um it that's God's voice nudging you like hey I think you need to pay attention to this pay attention pay attention yeah thank you how you gotta know his voice if you're not in you gotta know his voice how do you know a person's voice how do I know Amanda's voice well I talk to her all the time that part I'm with her that part right and then yeah oh beautiful all right my last question for you what makes you an audacious black girl I know myself I know who I am I know whose I am and there's nothing I can't do honestly I believe that like I'm a you know I'm a if I can't if I don't know how to do something I'm gonna figure it out I know that now and I'm not afraid to start small and fail forward and fail fast and learn again yes um yeah a multi is no box to me you know I'm I can do whatever I love it I love it thank you so very much where can the people find you podcast your website everything tell us your handles so the um the community you can find us at lived story l i v diaz and dog stories one um the actual website is lived.co and me personally is live lewis I'm old enough where I didn't have to put like hot mama live on the handle it's just live lewis l i vivewis um and the podcast is available wherever podcasts you listen to your podcast awesome everything would be in the show notes but um thank you so much for this amazing conversation thanks for having thank you for holding space for audacious black girls it's needed yes sometimes we feel like we have to shrink but thank you so yeah thank you thank you so much for being here and being part and for being an audacious black girl yourself thank you all right viewers I'll see you next time bye